House Republicans, who for years have complained about government secrecy, took in a three-hour briefing Thursday from special interests and lobbyists advocating both sides of the video gambling issue.
But they shut the media out, saying the gathering in the Legislative Office Building was only for Republicans and their invited guests.
A reporter for The News & Observer went anyway and listened as opponents outlined their positions against state-sponsored gambling. About 50 people filled the room, including about 15 to 20 lawmakers and a family of three who were in Raleigh to see how things work.
But the reporter was asked to leave under threat of removal by the House sergeant-at-arms just as the first of four video gambling advocates began speaking.
In interviews, Republican leaders previously announced they have eight "policy committee" groups, made up of only their members, formed to take in information on various issues, such as the budget and jobs. But the extent of their activities and interactions with special interests wasn't clear.
Democrats and advocates for open government criticized the practice Thursday.
"We never did that, and it's certainly inappropriate," said Joe Hackney, the Orange County Democrat who was speaker for the past four years. He said the Democrats did not interact with lobbyists or hear presentations amongst themselves. That's better done in the legislature's committees, he said.
Bob Phillips, executive director of Common Cause North Carolina, a group that seeks more transparency in government, said Republicans shouldn't operate in the shadows.
"It's absolutely amazing," Phillips said. "Conducting the people's business in the people's building, but keeping people out."
Caucus events private
Republicans and Democrats generally ban lobbyists and most others from attending gatherings of their membership, known as a caucus meeting. Typically, members hash out political positions in the caucus setting. At times, though, a nonpartisan staffer will present information but then leave when an issue is discussed.
House Republican leaders said these new policy committees are a part of their caucus, and that's why they can operate outside the public's view. Leaders said each chairman of the meeting decides who can stay. The meetings are not advertised.
Lawmakers have written an exemption to the state's Open Meetings Law that says a "caucus by members of the General Assembly" isn't open to the public. But the law also says: "However, no member of the General Assembly shall participate in a caucus which is called for the purpose of evading or subverting" the Open Meetings Law.
Tillis favors practice
House Speaker Thom Tillis defended the closed-door sessions as a way for Republicans to hear about "emotionally charged issues" without the media looking on. He said he does not believe the practice violates state law.
"We want to have an open and honest discussion," Tillis said, "and let that then influence where we go on policy matters."
A spokesman for Senate leader Phil Berger, a Republican from Eden, said the Senate does not have similar caucus groups.
Video gambling is a hot issue, with Gov. Bev Perdue and lawmakers from both parties studying whether to allow it to raise more money for the state. The video gambling meeting Thursday had the trappings of a regular legislative committee hearing.
Who was represented
The lawmakers heard from Eddie Caldwell, a lobbyist for the sheriff's of North Carolina; Bill Brooks, a lobbyist for the N.C. Family Policy Council; the Rev. Mark Creech, a lobbyist for the Christian Action League; and the founder of Gamblers' Anonymous in North Carolina.
Several of the lawmakers spoke of balancing freedom and liberty ideals with whether the government should prohibit a vice.
"You know, the idea that if someone wants to be an idiot and gamble, then why not let them," asked Rep. John Blust, a Greensboro Republican.
Brooks responded: "We could take down traffic lights, too, and tell people to just have at it."
Then, Theresa Kostrzewa, a lobbyist who represents gaming machine maker IGT, was invited to speak. She explained that IGT makes video poker machines and said she wasn't there to lobby.
An order to leave
Before she could continue, Republican House members David Lewis and Mike Stone ordered this reporter to leave the room or be forced to leave because no invitation was extended to the media.
Lewis is a five-term member from Dunn. Stone is a first-term member from Sanford.
Lewis, Stone and Blust, who while in the minority party long advocated for openness in government, all refused requests for an invitation to stay.
According to documents, the group was also set to hear from:
Sandy Sands, a lobbyist for a vending company.
Gardner Payne, a video sweepstakes company lobbyist.
And a man from the Entertainment Group of North Carolina, which wants the state to legalize video gambling and tax it.
As Lewis followed this reporter out of the room, he called for the sergeant-at-arms to come.
"We need to bar the door," he said.
