Peter Kaufman is a professor of history and religious studies at UNC-Chapel Hill. He runs a program called the Scholars' Latino Initiative, which mentors Hispanic high school students, some of whom are in the country illegally, who want to go to college.

ON WHY NORTH CAROLINA SHOULD OFFER HIGHER EDUCATION TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS:

"They're here and they're our neighbors, end of story. ... Civilization is not measured by how its population treats its sons and daughters and siblings. It's measured by how it treats the disadvantaged, and we don't get good grades on that so far. ...

"We're trying to avoid the ganging up and the desperation and the drugs and all the sorts of things that lead to aberrant behavior. We're trying to catch them and give a segment of the population hope."

ON COMPETITION:

"Immigration in the history of this country has always challenged the resident population, and the results have always been good, whether it's the Irish or the Germans or the Jewish Americans. ... We live in a capitalist system which thrives on competition, so it's not a matter of, 'Why should these people take the position that your daughter or my son should have?' Your daughter or my son will benefit from competition. If we run on competition, we ought to invite competition."

ON FINDING COLLEGES THAT ACCEPT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS AT RATES THEY CAN AFFORD:

(Illegal immigrants can attend UNC universities but must pay out-of-state rates and cannot get financial aid.)

"There are exceptions and we will find them. Some of our undocumented kids are applying to private schools out of state that are stepping forward and offering the possibility of students taking international status and funding them."

Kaufman said he is also recruiting private donors who will help students pay tuition at UNC schools.

ON THE WAYS ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS WILL USE THEIR EDUCATION, EVEN WITHOUT LEGAL WORKING PAPERS:

"One answer is that something must be done. Immigration reform will be done, has to be done, and we're dealing with a generation that we don't want to lose ... Four years in college, that's a good stretch. Things might change.

"The second answer is that we've run across a variety of folks who are not in compliance as far as labor rules, and that does not just include people who are hiring your gardeners or the people who are emptying your bedpans. I've met several of them, and I admire their courage. Our folks, when they graduate, will be looking for those exceptions, those breaches. ... Lawbreaking is not necessarily terrible and evil when the laws are so inadequate. We had lawbreakers in the 1770s and lawbreaking abolitionists. I can go on and on.

"And the third answer is that, if there's no comprehensive reform, what you will get is a state-by-state bending of the law to fit circumstances."

For example, Kaufman said, other states have begun finding ways to get visas for illegal immigrants who want to teach, because they have a shortage of English as a Second Language teachers.