PITTSBORO - Gretchen Lothrop and Bob Murdock both sued Chatham County -- she over illegal closed meetings held by the county's board of elections; he over a zoning issue.

Both won their cases in court. And both were left with tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees.

John Bussian, a Raleigh lawyer and lobbyist for the N.C. Press Association, said North Carolina is "in the ice ages" when it comes to paying the legal fees of plaintiffs who successfully sue local governments, particularly in public-records cases.

In states such as Florida and Texas, he said, plaintiffs automatically recover legal fees if they show governments violated public-records laws.

In North Carolina, a judge decides how much a successful plaintiff gets, Bussian said. And that keeps citizens from challenging those who deny them documents, he said.

"Because there is no automatic recovery, counties or cities can take a chance and say, 'If we lose, we pay our own legal expenses, but no one else's,' " said Bussian, who was not involved in either case.

In states with automatic recovery, "it tends to have a powerful effect," he said. "They disclose [the documents], so it doesn't cost taxpayers" when governments lose and have to reimburse legal fees with taxpayer money.

Although North Carolina judges can make governments pay legal fees, they rarely do, Bussian said. "There is a certain amount of sympathy in America to those who toil in public service," he said.

Andrew Romanet, general counsel for the N.C. League of Municipalities, said giving judges the power to award legal fees to the prevailing party is a good compromise. "The public record and open meetings laws are not abundantly clear," he said, "and in the case of a personnel file, it can be dangerous to give up the record."

Example in elections

Lothrop's fees totaled more than $35,000 after she sued the Chatham County Board of Elections. In September 2006, a judge ruled that three board meetings had violated the open meetings law because the board did not properly publicize them ahead of time.

Lothrop had wanted to follow the board's deliberations about purchasing touch-screen voting machines. The touch-screen technology doesn't require paper ballots, and some county residents feared votes could be lost without anyone knowing.

In addition, Lothrop said she was denied draft minutes from several meetings, including one in which the board met in closed session with its lawyer.

The state Supreme Court has ruled that draft government documents are public records.

The judge did order the county to pay 10 percent of Lothrop's legal fees, or $3,500.

But that was only a dent in her bill, she said. "It is really an outrage," she said. "The judge should have awarded all $35,000." Plus, she said, the county made no effort to defend its position, she said. "They said yeah, we're sorry. We were wrong," she said.

Several fundraisers with friends and supporters helped her pay her lawyers, she said.

Even though she won, Lothrop said the whole process has made her a cynic.

"If there is no penalty," she said, "they will just keep getting away denying records."

A second example

Murdock's lawsuit did not involve public records. He and his neighbors sued the county for rezoning and changing the shape of property owned by Lee-Moore Oil in northeast Chatham.

They won, persuading a judge that the county had used outdated maps and unfairly pushed a proposed shopping center closer to their homes. But now they owe more than $80,000 in legal bills.

Murdock and his neighbors have raised about $30,000 so far. But Lee-Moore Oil can also appeal, Murdock said, which would push the group's bills even higher.

"When the county blatantly violates their own rules, the correct thing they should do is pay for their mistakes," he said. "Justice costs a lot of money these days."