NC State football hasn’t played Duke in 7 years. Why Dave Doeren wants that to change.
The distance between Carter-Finley Stadium and Wallace Wade Stadium is about 20 miles.
N.C. State and Duke first played football against one another in 1924, but on Saturday the two will face off for only the fourth time since the ACC expanded in 2004 and 2005. It will be only the second time in his eighth year with the Wolfpack that Dave Doeren will coach his team against the Blue Devils.
This former rivalry ended after the ACC expanded to add Miami (2004), Virginia Tech (2004) and Boston College (2005) to increase to 12 teams and split into two football divisions — the Coastal and Atlantic.
The two Triangle teams, Duke, in the Coastal Division, and N.C. State, in the Atlantic, now play each other about once every few years.
“To me it’s a natural rivalry game,” Doeren told the media Monday. “It makes sense geographically to play a team that’s that close to you that’s in your own league, so it’s kind of a common sense deal in my opinion.”
Duke (1-4, 1-4 ACC) is one of four ACC schools Doeren hasn’t beaten since he was hired as N.C. State’s coach in December 2012. Duke has won the last two meetings between the two teams, including a 49-28 victory at Carter-Finley Stadium in 2009 and a 38-20 win in Durham in 2013, Doeren’s first season.
The Wolfpack (3-1, 3-1) enters Saturday’s game with some momentum, having won two in a row. But records don’t typically matter in rivalry games.
Rivalry ends due to expansion
When the ACC split into two divisions in 2005, Duke became part of the Coastal and N.C. State became part of the Atlantic. Each member school chose one permanent rival to play annually. The Wolfpack’s permanent rival became North Carolina, also in the Coastal, and the Blue Devils’ permanent rival became Wake Forest from the Atlantic.
Those pairings made a frequent Duke-N.C. State game almost impossible.
“It’s not really something that you can do from an ACC standpoint when you have 14 teams and divisions are not going to let us,” Blue Devils coach David Cutcliffe told the media on Monday. “We have Wake every year. We have North Carolina, which is in our division. I don’t think they’re going to let us both not have a travel opportunity. The rest of the league would probably throw their hands up on that one.”
Cutcliffe said he could understand the rest of the league, the teams not geographically close to the North Carolina or Virginia, feeling a certain way if they missed out on chances to play teams that are natural rivalries based on location.
“The cons would be that the rest of the league would be pretty upset if we had the proximity games we have; we have Virginia, Virginia Tech in our division,” Cutcliffe said Monday. “And then if you were to play an N.C. State, Carolina and Wake, they would just view that as a negative if you’re Louisville or you’re Syracuse or you’re Miami or any other the number of teams in our league.”
Coronavirus changes the ACC schedule
Duke and N.C. State were originally scheduled to play this season, even before the coronavirus pandemic forced the league to adopt an 11-game schedule that includes each school playing 10 ACC opponents. Cutcliffe thinks that could potentially lead to a change in the ACC’s scheduling approach moving forward.
“With the midst of what we’re in, we have no idea what next year is going to look like,” Cutcliffe said. “We may be playing nine or 10 conference games every year. That may be what TV wants to see. So in that environment, it would be more likely to have a better chance of happening.”
Doeren is for that change, saying he would be one of the coaches “pounding on the table” for the league to do that.
Doeren said every N.C. State recruiting class should have the chance to play every school in the ACC at least once. He hasn’t had a player who played against Duke since his redshirt seniors of 2017.
“I just don’t think that’s fair,” Doeren said. “Not just because they are down the street, but you come to play in the ACC you should play every team. I mean it would be great if you could play a home and away against every team, particularly when you’re talking about a team in the Triangle. It’s pretty crazy that you could come to N.C. State and never play Duke your entire career.”
Even though the two schools haven’t played in seven years, Doeren has still done his homework on the Blue Devils each season.
“When you don’t play a team you still watch everybody,” Doeren said. “In preparation I’ve watched Duke on defense for the last seven years. I’ve watched Duke on offense for the last seven years. We have a good feel for what they are going to be, it’s going to come down to executing.”
Potential recruiting win for the winner
Playing an in-state, conference opponent can go a long way when it comes to recruiting.
All four ACC coaches in North Carolina want to target the best homegrown talent. Hosting Duke on Saturday at Carter-Finley would have been a big recruiting day for Doeren under normal circumstances. But due to COVID-19 recruits are not allowed to attend games.
Historically, the Wolfpack and Blue Devils compete for the same players, and being able to beat that team head-to-head is a bonus on the recruiting trail.
“Postseason conversations when kids are choosing between us and Duke, or us and Wake and us and UNC,” Doeren said, “The head-to-head games always matter in what they are looking at program-wise.”
Doeren will, however, welcome the return of some fans to Carter-Finley on Saturday. It will be the team’s first home game since Sept. 19. At the time only parents could attend the games, but 4,000 fans will be allowed into the game on Saturday, thanks to Gov. Roy Cooper’s Phase 3 coronavirus rules, an upgrade Doeren will gladly take.
“I’m definitely thinking that being around the fan base will be nice for our players,” Doeren said. “Playing in front of 4,000 is a little bit different than playing in front of a packed house here at the Carter. It’s not going to be a big crowd, but it’s going to be a crowd that’s very loyal to these guys and it’ll be nice for them to have more than what we had at the last game. We’ll take that improvement.”
Duke at NC State
When: 3:30 p.m., Saturday
Where: Carter-Finley Stadium, Raleigh
Watch: RSN
